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Celebrating and Encouraging Each Person’s Unique Creativity While Doing the Things That Scare Us Most

Why is it that often the things you want to do the most in life come with the most fear attached? We unpack this question, while having conversations with people from all walks of life, about the scary things that they’re pursuing in their own lives. We work from an inclusive belief that everyone is creative and share our own scary things, because we realize that is the first step in encouraging people to do things that are scary for them. We want to build a community of people encouraging others to do things that might not come naturally at first, but will bring a lot of joy into life. Consider this your invitation to join us on Thursdays as we release new content each week!

Today we chat with author & ted talk speaker Hannah Brencher. Hannah discusses the benchmarks of calling yourself a writer and how the not knowing is tied to insecurities and what-ifs in her experience.

"What if I'm not good at the thing I love more than anything in this world?"

She describes the importance of having an internal confidence and knowing that "that's why you're here and that's why you're doing the thing and if you didn't do it tomorrow, nobody else's heart would be broken, but your own heart would be broken and that should be enough."

We also discuss:

-How she deals with getting 1 star reviews and where she believes most of them come from.

-The fact that you can't please everyone and why that's okay.

-How she dealt with a "Hannah Brencher Sucks" blog and other criticisms and the good that has come from responding to them in kindness.

-The pitfalls of the "power of anonymity" of the internet

-The importance of not looking to others for validation and yet feeling like your work is important

-Self-promotion and why it matters if you are your authentic self

-Why she moved across the country because of a friend from Twitter and why it wasn't easy

-Thoughts on becoming addicted to what it feels like to be seen by and applauded by other people

-Why you have to decide what you're made of and what's worth fighting for

-"What do I do when the momentum slows down, because it will

-Why consistency and creating content (even when we don't feel like it) matters

-Why discipline is important & how it led to her becoming passionate about writing

-Why she does not believe in writer's block

-Why perfection is crippling, irrelevant, and a waste of time.

-How to be patient when things "might not work out"

-The importance of instilling hope in other people

-Why you shouldn't put up "phantom barriers" or make fear based decisions

Hannah Brencher is a writer, TED speaker, and online educator with a heart for building leaders. She is the author of "Come Matter Here" and "If You Find This Letter." Named as one of the White House’s “Women Working to Do Good” and a spokesperson for the United States Postal Service, Hannah founded The World Needs More Love Letters in 2011. The global community has grown to over 20,000 individuals across six continents, fifty-three countries, all fifty states, and is established on over sixty-three college campuses.

Hannah has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Oprah, Glamour, USATODAY.com, Chicago Tribune, and dozens of other publications. Hannah graduated from Assumption College in 2010 with a double major in Sociology and English, with a concentration in Writing and Mass Communications. She calls Atlanta, Georgia her home. 

Connect with her at www.hannahbrenchercreative.com - buy your own Saint Joseph statue here. :)

Connect with us online! www.doingscarythings.com

Email us! doingscarythingspod@gmail.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Stream our music here!

Twitter: @katiesnyder

In this very special end of the year episode, Anna + Katie discuss how to finally make the changes in your life that you've been longing for. They discuss how they went from being very busy business owners to song writers. They talk about how they took their first step of giving themselves one day and what has happened for them since.

Topics discussed:

-Feeling selfish & impractical but "ferociously" protecting that time

-Ignoring the guilt

-Why this is self-care

-What to do if you don't think you have the time to start

-When you're at your capacity & how to find your margins

-Why Actionable Steps are different than a 10 step program & why they will look different for everyone

-Why your passions are important enough to sacrifice for and what that might look like

-Why 5 minutes still matters

-Creative "problem solving" ways to find more time in your life

-Tracking social media/screen time & tips for taking back that time!

-How would you help a friend if they were in the same kind of trouble as you?

"Your steps might be different than ours, but you have to take the first one."

We also added an extended blooper reel to this episode just for fun!

Katie read "The Journey" by Mary Oliver. Original Music created just for us by Dan Snyder.

Let us know what you think of this episode by contacting us through the links below!

Connect with us online! www.doingscarythings.com

Email us! doingscarythingspod@gmail.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Stream our music here!

Twitter: @katiesnyder

This week, we talk with divorced, cat-dad, & single father of two, Justin Farrey. We discuss the ways he creatively raises his sons, including organizing and executing "Bike Adventure Pizza Crawls".

Justin tells us why he decided to go back to school in his late twenties to become an RN, even though he had no scientific background and wasn't a good student and why "failure was not an option." He also discusses what he learned during his 9 years at a call center job he didn't enjoy.

He originally states that he's not sure he's creative and then disagrees with himself. We discuss the many ways medical professionals have to use creative problem solving every day and how he deals with the risk of medical error. We compare/contrast those risks with those of a self-employed artist.

We discuss the ways he has used his natural gifting/interests in his career and why he has vowed to always provide a teaching environment in his nursing career.

Find out what the scariest thing he can imagine is & why he wants to challenge himself more in the future. 

"It is doable. There is a way."

Let us know what you think of this episode by contacting us through the links below!

Connect with Justin on Instagram: @JustinFarrey

Connect with us online! www.doingscarythings.com

Email us! doingscarythingspod@gmail.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Stream our music here!

Twitter: @katiesnyder

This week, Anna + Katie release their 3rd single, Close, under the band name Jasper + Jade. They discuss in detail why this was the song that brought them together and, as Anna says, "the original scary thing." They share the process of how this song evolved from a very beginner garage band demo to a professional recording with Josiah Prince at The Ranch in Nashville. Anna shares the "devastating" circumstances that provided the meaning behind the song and how going through that situation and writing about the process sealed the deal that "I have to do this - period." They explain to listeners that "if we can start - you can start" and discuss why escaping the vulnerability requires you to equally escape the reward also. The girls discuss a few of the many shapes Close took before the recording process and give credit to the plentiful Josiah-raz-a-ma-taz that was added in that process. If you get nothing else out of this episode, Anna + Katie want you to know that "We didn't think we could do it. But we did. And we believe you can, too!"

Close was produced at The Ranch in Nashville, TN with Josiah Prince. Strings by Corey Justin Horn at The Reef Studio

Connect with us online! www.doingscarythings.com

Email us! doingscarythingspod@gmail.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Stream our music here!

Twitter: @katiesnyder

Today, we speak with Anna's younger sister, Mary J. Austin. MJ is an undergraduate student at Harding University studying Communication Sciences & Disorders with hopes of becoming a Speech Language Pathologist. She is also the volunteer coordinator at a non-profit and wearer of many other hats.

A few topics covered include:

-What it's like to be a part of a generation that has yet to be named/labeled!

-We myth bust a few of the common stereotypes of Millenials and discuss why everything actually is not their fault!

-We discuss what it was like to grow up always having access to internet... (or did she?) and the positivities that have come from that easy accessibility 

-MJ explains the thought process behind knowing that she might not actually end up doing what she's studying in college as a career and why that's okay, as well as the benefits she's experiencing from learning interpersonal skills & how to talk to people!

-Together, we discuss how things automatically get less "scary" after you do them the first time! And what it looks like to do things even though they're scary aka tolerating discomfort. MJ reminds us that, "I can be uncomfortable and enjoy it at the same time." 

-Katie shares some thoughts about what "enjoying the journey" means to her and Anna chimes in with disclosing something she's gotten really, really good at over the years. (Hint: It's probably not what you think!)

-MJ shares a recent example of how she's used her creativity with a task she felt "completely unqualified" for.

-We discuss what it's like to have perfectionism tendencies and some practical strategies for overcoming that. During this segment, we reference the Enneagram, which is (in Katie's opinion), the holy grail of Personality Tests. Contact us to discuss further. We'd love to.

-MJ discusses using creativity in the midst of her busiest season of life yet and what the benefits of creativity really are to her, leading to our first official argument for creativity on the show.

-We discuss what that elusive J really stands for and what songs have or have not been written about her famous name.

-MJ leaves us with this incredible word of wisdom: "Don't let the fear of the unknown freeze you in your tracks." (and a few other great train metaphors)

Let us know what you think of this episode by contacting us through the links below!

Connect with us online! www.doingscarythings.com

Email us! doingscarythingspod@gmail.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Stream our music here!

Twitter: @katiesnyder

Matt Keller is a senior vice president of innovation and intrepreneur at a rapidly growing company. He's also an entrepreneur, Inventor, urban homesteader, husband, and dad. Today, he chats with Anna & Katie about the way he uses his creativity to start and lead businesses and his family.

Learn Why Matt Believes: 

-Entrepreneurs are borderline psychopaths 

-We’re all driven by different things on different days

-There’s different challenges to being both a full time and/or a part time entrepreneur 

-Some people don’t want to claim creativity because of fear

-You shouldn’t fight the momentum around you, even if it’s not the way you originally thought things would work out

-You should never short change your responsibilities because you're pursuing opportunities

-Creativity works best within limits

-Not everyone is your customer & that’s okay

-You should listen to all criticism

-You should find mentors who have done what you're doing before & ask for help

-You will probably fail the first time you try something

People/Resources Mentioned by Matt:

10% Entrepreneur by Patrick McGinnis

Brett Trapp, Creator of Blue Babies Pink

The Element by Ken Robinson


On today's episode, Matt discusses in great detail why he likes new ideas, solving problems, and creating things from nothing. He explains that his ideal outlet is creating solutions & value propositions.

He chats candidly about his previous “failed” project.

He chats about what it's like to have a different medium of creativity while being married to a multi-passionate artist & musician, Blaine Watson Keller.

He also shares how he and his wife have (re-)pioneered his dream living situation after initially giving up on that dream when he was 16 & explains a little about the responsibilities that have come with that.

Matt tells how he balances being an entrepreneur with being an employee at the same time & why the first makes him a better employee.

He tells us all about his fascinating new invention and start-up company AVYD. 

If you've ever wondered if you have what it takes to juggle many plates, start and/or lead companies, or how to live in a creative way, we think you'll enjoy our convo with Matt Keller.

Connect with us online! www.doingscarythings.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Stream our music here!

Twitter: @katiesnyder

On today's special episode, Anna + Katie have a very real and honest talk with Katie's husband, Dan Snyder. Dan has been a working musician for 12 years and fronts alternative rock band PAPER LIGHTS. 

From his years of driving an armored car to the decision to take a chance pursuing music, Dan and Katie tell the behind the scenes version of the steps that led them to where they are today in the first interview they've ever done together. 

Although they make a slightly wrong comment about Atlanta's current minimum wage, they explain what made giving up their secure jobs an "easy decision" and what they held as their safety net during that first year. Anna accurately assesses the "relativity of their risk".

Dan discusses the biggest challenges he's faced in his 12 years in the music industry, including why he finds it hard to set goals and discussing the ever mysterious gate keeper. 

Dan and Katie explain a few of the responsibilities that come with being an independent artist and dispel a few common myths typically believed of musicians.

Dan discusses the ambitious endeavor PAPER LIGHTS achieved in the making of their most recent album Everything is Sound (HINT: It includes visiting 13 National Parks) and the difference between supporting other artists as a backing musician vs fronting a band.

He explains why singing in front of people is "the most vulnerable thing he could ever imagine" and the stages of fear he has personally experienced with this process, leading Anna to tell the story of the time he "saved her life" during a country music soundcheck.

Dan and Katie discuss some of their experiences revolving around the House Concert resurgence and Dan shares the stories behind two of PAPER LIGHTS' newest songs, Release The Bear and Simple. 

We hope you love this week's episode!

PAPER LIGHTS have won GMA, IMEA, and Academia Music Awards this year. Their music has been featured on MTV, ESPN, NPR, CBS and for brands like Coca Cola, Boeing, Chicfila, and Outdoor Magazine. Their latest album is called Everything is Sound and includes sounds recorded from 13 National Parks across the US.

Also mentioned:

Jeremy Griffith 

Josh Stewart

Shane Cole

Connect with Dan / PAPER LIGHTS online:


Instagram: @paperlights

Images from the National Parks Tour: #rudolphtheredadventurevan

Twitter: @thepaperlights

Facebook: www.facebook.com/thepaperlights/

Stream PAPER LIGHTS on Spotify

Connect with us! www.doingscarythings.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Twitter: @katiesnyder

Listen to our music!(Click here to stream on spotify)

This week, Anna + Katie discuss a listener question from Daniel which is, "How do you encourage and support the people in your life who are using their creativity?" Here's their list:

1. Acknowledge their effort. (Say something nice)

2. Be a good listener (Ask them a question about it!)

3. Express interest with no negativity.

4. Bilndly encourage (them to think/spend more time on it)

5. Use your own creativity 

6. Give them room to experiment (& fail)

7. Encourage their interest & the things they are naturally good at. (And tell them they can do it!)

8. Encourage them to work hard (Ask if you can hold them accountable)

9. Tell them you believe in them.

10. Actually believe in them.

In this episode, Anna + Katie candidly discuss the reality that while every human is creative, not everyone is living in the vulnerable space of using their creativity daily. A + K believe that you are qualified and you have permission to do whatever you'd like to do with your life and say, "When you're doing scary things.. the tiniest amount of encouragement can go so far." Katie goes on to clarify that it "might be scary to start, it might be scary to talk about, or it might be scary to keep going," but this is the work you must do in your life!

They discuss the ways all humans desire to be seen, heard, & known and talk about what it means to give your friends room to fail. Katie works towards debunking the myth of "the best" and together they clarify that you don't have to be good at something the day you start! "People are capable of so much."

Connect with us! www.doingscarythings.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Twitter: @katiesnyder

Anna + Katie release their second single under the band name Jasper + Jade. This one's quite different from the first and they discuss in intricate detail every step of the recording process with producer Josiah Prince, lead guitarist for the rock band Disciple. They discuss what it was like meeting and working with him for the first time at his Nashville studio, The Ranch, and also what it was like working along side his beautiful dog, Asher. Find out which band inspired this song the most and why it's really like two songs in one. Anna + Katie detail the process and emotion, as well as the interesting process, that went into writing the lyrics of the song and the metaphor that Deathbed represents. Hear them describe what they were picturing when they were envisioning the build on the end of the song and why Katie should never, ever be in a screamo band. Hear the single here first and then go buy/stream it wherever you get your music.

Connect with us online! www.doingscarythings.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Twitter: @katiesnyder

Teri Dosher owns and operates The Willow Tree Coffeehouse & Music Venue in Johnson City, TN, which is a magical little place that has quickly become a must play for many amazing musicians from near and far. 

On today's episode, Teri discusses what led her to "just go for it" and open the business with the encouragement of her daughter. She tells the incredible story of how her dream location became available the day after she decided it would be the perfect spot, and how she's more scared of this decision now, 5 years later, than she was in the beginning.

Teri describes what it was like to leave her secure teaching job at the time, and what it's like for her now, when business has been up and down, and she's watching several of her friends enter in to "secure" retirement plans while she has none. 

She tells the fascinating story of how her team learned to make coffee from watching Youtube videos and how they built their incredible "comfort" food menu one item at a time, as well as how she has developed her process of paying artists fairly without going completely broke.

She talks about the interesting story of where the name of the coffee shop came from and how they've weathered the addition of competitive coffee shops in their town.

Teri tells Anna + Katie about the highs and lows that have come with owning her business and some of the things that have made it most worthwhile for her over the years.

She discusses the need for gratitude in every circumstance and how she pushes past the different fears that creep into her mind from time to time. Teri is a wealth of wisdom and we think you're really going to love this talk!

Connect with Teri online at www.thewillowtreejc.com or experience The Willow Tree for yourself at 216 E. Main St, Johnson City, TN.

Suggested Reading from this Episode: Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert

Connect with Anna + Katie online! www.doingscarythings.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Twitter: @katiesnyder

Amanda Williams Wilkinson holds an MFA in Creative Writing from Hollins University where she was the recipient of a Jackson Fellowship and a Teaching Fellowship. She is the recipient of the Gertrude Claytor Prize in Poetry from the Academy of American Poets, and her poetry has twice been nominated for a Pushcart Prize. Her poems have been published on Poets.org, in Flock, The Sycamore Review, Sugar House Review, Silver Birch Press, and The New Territory, among others. Her essays have appeared in AAAA Magazine and The Morning News, and she sits on the Board of Directors for Ruminate magazine. She is also the Owner of The Bodice Babe, a historical costuming company, where she creates one-of-a-kind custom historical garments for clients all over the world. She is currently the Assistant Director of Development, Annual Fund & Parent Programs at Whitfield School in St. Louis where she lives with her husband. Little Human Relics is her first book.

Anna + Katie talk with Amanda about the process of publishing her first book and then having the bravery to ask for it to be re-released. We discuss how she finds time to run her online costuming business and how she brings her innate creativity to her "day job" of fundraising for the Whitfield School in St. Louis. She explains the hardest part of writing poetry (finishing them!) and what she was most scared of when asking her publisher to re-release her book. She talks about the fears that come with doing this work and what she can and cannot control, as well as what her most rewarding outcome of her hard work would be. She explains the vulnerability with re-releasing a project, but also what she plans to do differently this time. Amanda discusses the fantastic way that she prioritizes her time between all of her passions and efforts and what keeps her going along the way.


Connect with Amanda!

Author Website: https://amanda-williams-cmpr.squarespace.com/

Etsy Shop: https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheBodiceBabe

Purchase her book Little Human Relics on Amazon or directly from the publisher at http://www.unsolicitedpress.com/


Connect with us! www.doingscarythings.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Twitter: @katiesnyder

Dr. Janine Krippner has been called a "smiter of ludicrous volcanological rumors" by Forbes. She has studied explosive volcanic eruptions and their deposits using data collected in the field in Russia and on Mt. St. Helens and also using satellite data from space! She's now using social media in exciting and innovative ways to educate a new generation about the truth and best safety practices of volcanos.

Anna + Katie talk with her about why creativity is required for all scientific professions. She discusses process of becoming qualified to do what she does, and how she wasn't sure she was good enough to do it. She describes the process of not knowing what her next job will be or even if she'll be allowed to stay in this country. 

She gives practical and encouraging advice that you should pursue your passion, even if it's not easy (It probably won't be!), that doubt is natural for everyone, and she describes why she often felt like she was behind in life, even though she chose her profession when she was very young.

She explains the difference in figuring things out vs. feeling things out and the importance in remembering why you're doing something, as well as evaluating worst case scenarios. 

Janine + Anna bond over their shared love of cats, and Katie describes why she's probably a lot like a cat. You don't want to miss this episode!


Find Janine online!


Find us online! www.doingscarythings.com

Instagram: @doingscarythings @jasperandjade.music @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 

#doingscarythings #jasperandjademusic

Twitter: @katiesnyder

Anna + Katie interview their friend (and producer of their first song), Jason WILKES. WILKES was a contestant on Season 14 of The Voice and is an introverted musician with pop/rock sounds + country content. 

He discusses in detail why he decided to go by his last name professionally, why he doesn't measure progress based on money, and gives lots of insight into his 18 years of experience in the music industry. From his early days touring with High Flight Society, to later joining Disciple on the road, to then changing his mind about "singing shows" all together when he became a contestant on The Voice, he describes his journey in fascinating detail. He discusses what he was really thinking during that unintentional mic drop moment on The Voice and explains why his musical experience has been like going to medical school.

He shares encouragement for people trying to figure out what they should do in life and what it was like recording Jasper + Jade's first song. Oh, and he also talks about some of his biggest fears. Don't miss this episode!

Instagram: @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 @doingscarythings #doingscarythings

Connect with WILKES!

General: info@WILKESmusic.com

Tour and Press: WILKEStour@gmail.com


Instagram @WILKESmusic

Twitter @WILKESmusic



Anna + Katie discuss the inspiration and true life story behind their first Jasper + Jade single, Collide. They discuss the insecurities and challenges that come from putting yourself out there as an artist for the first time, and the experience of recording with their friend, WILKES, who was a contestant on season 14 of The Voice, and a very accomplished artist in his own right. Katie talks about how she had to take the words she had written to encourage others seriously for herself, and the courage it took to decide that she had every right to pursue this passion. Hear the single here first, and then go stream it wherever you listen to music!

Links: www.doingscarythings.com

Instagram: @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 @doingscarythings #doingscarythings

Anna talks to Katie about the book she’s been writing that inspired them to start this podcast. Katie argues that the belief that everyone is creative will change the way people think about their life and what they’re capable of pursuing and achieving. She talks about some of the struggles that have come from writing her first book and where she’s at in the process. She also talks about how this story is closer to her own than she could have ever imagined. She debunks the myth of being born with talents or gifts versus working hard for what you’d like to achieve. She also suggests that creativity is one of the most misunderstood concepts in our world and clarifies the actual definition of it. Katie talks about how not letting yourself begin in pursuing your passions doesn’t hurt or affect anyone but yourself and how everyone has the right to begin.

Later, Anna and Katie make a really special announcement regarding new music they are releasing under the band name Jasper + Jade, and where that name came from. They share that by doing their scary thing, they are hoping to inspire others to do theirs. 

Links: www.doingscarythings.com

Instagram: @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 @doingscarythings #doingscarythings

Learn all about Katie in today’s episode, from how she grew up in a small town in northeast Tennessee and later chose her profession on a whim in college. How she grew what she thought would be her hobby of photography into a fifteen-year successful career, and how she chose to take a step back from that career to pursue the thing she had always (secretly) wanted to try. How coming from a musical family and later marrying a professional musician didn’t give her the permission she needed to pursue music for herself - only she could do that. Anna and Katie discuss the many reasons we talk ourselves down, and the realization that, “The safe and sensible thing is not satisfying.” How Katie finally found the strength within to begin, when she decided, “I can do it for myself, or I can do it for nobody,” and how she desires to leverage her own experiences to encourage others to do the things that they’re most passionate about and announces that she’s writing a book on this subject. “We are at least one example that you can start. You only have one life - it’s really up to you how you choose to spend it."

Hosts Anna Packer & Katie Snyder have a secret rock band (Jasper + Jade) and are co-hosts of The Doing Scary Things podcast.

The purpose of this podcast is to talk to people who are doing some pretty scary things in their life about what it takes for them to push past fear and keep themselves going everyday. Anna & Katie will also unpack the vulnerable things they're pursuing in their own lives and hopefully offer encouragement to you wherever you are on your journey.

Links: www.doingscarythings.com

Instagram: @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 @doingscarythings #doingscarythings

Episode One: Part A

Learn all about Anna in today’s episode, from how she grew up in an Illinois cornfield, was in the brass section in her high school band, and borrowed a whole bunch of money for a degree in a field that was actually her second career choice. She talks about the fairytale story of how she met her musician husband while he was touring with his band, being a cat mom on Instagram, listening to 90s country music growing up, and then performing with a successful country artist as an adult. After that abruptly ended, she talks about how she finally returned to her first love of music and the story behind how she began writing songs with Katie. Together, they discuss how they’ve treated every step of this process as an experiment, and how they began giving themselves permission to try the thing they had always wanted to do the most, as well as what they think leads to becoming a more full human being. They debunk the myth that everyone should follow the same path, discuss ways to think outside of the box when it comes to pursuing your life passions, and elaborate on why they think you shouldn’t listen to or follow the status quo. "The only real question is, are you going to do it or not?"

Hosts Anna Packer & Katie Snyder have a secret rock band (Jasper + Jade) and are co-hosts of The Doing Scary Things podcast.

The purpose of this podcast is to talk to people who are doing some pretty scary things in their life about what it takes for them to push past fear and keep themselves going everyday. Anna & Katie will also unpack the vulnerable things they're pursuing in their own lives and hopefully offer encouragement to you wherever you are on your journey.

Links: www.doingscarythings.com

Instagram: @thekatiesnyder @annaesthetic23 @doingscarythings #doingscarythings